Scott Leese (00:00): It was really hard. I wanted to quit after the first day. I remember thinking I'm going to get acquired today for sure. Being able to shake it off faster and bounce back faster is really, really, really important.
Intro (00:14): Choose not to live in a world of filters, realize your mistakes, set the foundation for your success. Get some wins knucklehead podcast.
Stephen Colon (00:27): Well, welcome to another edition of Knucklehead Podcast. You've got with you today, the Knucklehead, and if you're familiar with the way the business is done in 2020, the term LinkedIn can mean a lot of different things to you. But in the context of a social media platform, where people are connecting with other business professionals to find resources and solutions, the name, Scott Leese, it shouldn't be unfamiliar to you. So I've got the opportunity and you, the listener have an opportunity to listen to what I believe is a very accomplished sales individual. He just confessed prior to this, that he does a lousy job of selling himself. I don't believe that for a second. However, I've been fortunate enough to have a relationship with Scott to a certain extent over the last few years, never not been one to communicate and speak exactly what it is that's on his mind as it relates to helping somebody move forward.
Stephen Colon (01:13): And so that means that sometimes you get some not easy things to hear, and Scott's usually been the one to convey that message. So, Scott, I appreciate you taking some time to spend with those of us who listened to knucklehead podcast and those of us who consume the material of what people have screwed up to help them get to the success that they have in business. So I appreciate you having some time for us today. Yeah, no problem, man. It's finally, I know we've talked about trying to get me on this show for a while, so it's good to finally be here. Yeah, we have it's well, that's, that's part of the process. It just takes some time to get to that point. But for those of you who are listening, who liked to read Scott wrote a book called addicted to the process and part of that book, and I don't want to put words into his mouth here, but part of what resonated with me over the course of that book is the same thing that I related to in David Goggins book, where there's going to be pain associated with growth.
Stephen Colon (01:59): There's going to be things that you're going to do that are wasted motion. And it's going to reveal a lot of gaps that you have in your character. And Scott just willingly admitted that through that entire process. And whenever I read that book and whenever I've subsequently been able to follow up and have some conversations with you, it's very apparent that you don't shy away from the things that are hard. And I found that a lot of people who are type a believe that they can get a lot of things done. So you've probably built a lot of organizations with people. Maybe who've had some fun egos to deal with. I'm sure. Uh, but at the same time, you've also been able to leverage that as an opportunity to make yourself better over the course of your career. So rewind the clock back a little bit to whenever you first wrote that book, what was it that compelled you to be disciplined enough to start writing those words down and organize it in a book form? What were you going through professionally at the time? Were you just coming out of a screw up or, or are you in the midst of a transition? Yeah, that's a great question. I was in between jobs. So I had just sort of outbound engine
Scott Leese (03:00): And this was before I knew what I was going to do next. And it felt like a good moment in time for me to kind of get this done. Right. Like I had been asked and kind of pushed and pressured by people who used to work for me and friends of mine. Like you should really like put your sales methodology and process out there and put it into a book and whatnot. It was just like a personal kind of project. I wish I could tell you that I had this big master plan, like, Oh, this is going to end up launching something of mine or, or, or whatever. But no, it wasn't that it was like, I have all this stuff I've been talking about and teaching about for 10, 15 years or so. Um, I have this moment in time where I'm in between jobs and, uh, it feels like a good time to get down on paper and, and get it done.
Scott Leese (03:46): And, you know, I ended up cranking it out pretty fast. Like I think I started in November and it was on the shelves by may. That is quick granted within, uh, within a couple months and ended up getting a job at Kalia and yeah, it's been very well received and sold pretty well. And I knew that it would, could be like a little bit of a calling card. Like if you want to know, what's got things about sales, like here's this book, right. It's all in there, but it's been a, it's been a really nice surprise. You know, some of the feedback I've gotten has been really wonderful and, uh, it's just, uh, it's another, another project of mine. And I don't know if you know this or not Steven, but, uh, I just finished writing my second book. I don't know if he knew that or not.
Stephen Colon (04:34): I finished with it. I knew that it was under construction.
Scott Leese (04:37): Well, that's fair. It's in the editing and revision kind of phase, but the V one is done and I got a title and everything and it should be out hopefully by Christmas. So, um, something that I, that I enjoy doing now,
Stephen Colon (04:53): Let's talk about that just real quick. So whenever it comes to these podcasts and you hear this all the time in the podcast sphere, people want to talk about the Rosie really comfortable results of maybe hard work, right? There's some stories that get shared along the way where they're difficult to hear sometimes because with progress and with growth, there's that messy middle that ends up taking place. And so you made reference to one of those companies. I don't think that outbound engine was your first foray into the, in the sales leadership round, but you started as a, as a sales guy. I mean, you, you started with a sheet of paper with a telephone number to establish a relationship and be kind of a telephone actor in a way to help companies and individuals make good decisions. And that's a very interesting profession just to put it out there. Not everybody does that, especially in today's world. So what was it about sales that made you want to, I mean, what was it, was there not a choice to go in a different direction? Or what was it about sales that puts you in this arena? All of a sudden where you could have a lot of income tied to those dials that you were making? My
Scott Leese (05:58): Decision to get in sales was really born of necessity and having no other options, to be honest with you, you know, anybody who knows me as sort of the story, and I know you have, but I got really sick right before my 23rd birthday ended up spending about four years in the hospital. I've had nine surgeries at this point in my life, four major abdominal surgeries, two lifesaving emergency surgeries, kicked opioids. I went through hell and back more than once. And I had never had a real job. I was getting paid to coach soccer and coach tennis and getting paid to play. And that kind of thing. I never had any kind of job. I didn't have a business degree. I studied psychology and religion in school, right. And here I am at 26 seven and I'm in the Bay area and I'm finally like healthy enough to work.
Scott Leese (06:50): And I have no idea what I'm going to do with myself. All I know is now I'm very far behind in my mind, I'm very far behind, right behind everybody else who, you know, was able to work and figure out what they want to do with themselves. The only thing I think of man was sales that made any sense. And the reason was not because I felt like a salesman or I was interested in it. It was just, okay, that's a competitive arena. And as an athlete, I understand it. And, and the better you do, the more you get paid. And if you do bad, you get cut. And I understood that, right? So that was it, man. That was my thought process and, and, and decision making. And so I, I took a entry level sales job paid $30,000 in San Francisco, which is, you know, way below the poverty line in San Francisco.
Scott Leese (07:43): And, uh, did not have a ton of training at all. It was really like half a day. And this is 2004, I think, 16 years ago, we didn't have a CRM. There was no enablement tool. There was, there was nothing. Okay. I didn't have leads. I had to source my own leads. I don't even think I had a headset. In fact, I did not have a headset because I can remember just like hunched over with my neck, you know, holding the phone in play while I was trying to type and everything. That's how old I am, Steve, but you're just trying to figure it out and make it happen, man. And it was really, really hard. I wanted to quit after the first day, I remember calling my wife and telling her that I wasn't going to go back and I'd have to figure something else out.
Scott Leese (08:29): And she checked my ass a little bit and said, well, you don't really have another choice. And I'm like, damn it. She's, you know, she's right. And I kind of fought a little harder on day two and day three. And by day five, I was the last guy left that had come in with this starting hiring class of mine who had either not closed the deal yet or not quit already. And I remember thinking I'm going to get fired today for sure. In my first week, if I don't make a sale. Right. So I'm just going to stay here and make them know that I'm still working. So if they're gonna, if they're going to fire me and they're going to have to fire me in the middle of my Workday, it's like four o'clock five o'clock passes, six o'clock passes, seven o'clock passes. There's nobody left in the office. I cold call Hawaii at nine 30 at night. I'm taking advantage of the time zone. Right. And I end up one call closing this real estate agent. We were selling online lead generation tools. Right. And men, the light bulb went off. Right. And that was when I thought to myself, okay, that was fun. I really liked that. That's a hell of a rush. I want to feel that way again. Maybe I can do this, you know, and I'm, and at that point, like I kind of committed and threw myself directly into it.
Speaker 4 (09:50): Have you ever asked yourself why you haven't started a podcast? Well, I already know the reason. So to you, you don't feel like you're tech savvy. You don't feel like you got your message wired site. And quite frankly, it's just, it's all this mystification going on. Quite frankly. Uh, our process helps to demystify that we're push button for podcast. We're not go ahead. Why knucklehead? Well, we lead with the fact that you don't know what you're doing. We do. We've been there. We've actually been in your shoes. We take your spoken voice. We literally give a human voice to your website. You want to bring dead leads to life. Well, then you need to talk to knuckleheads. Essentially what we're going to do is we're going to take you through our process and we're going to help take your human voice and increase the process for you going from dead leads to life.
Speaker 4 (10:32): How do I, how do I do that? Well, you essentially just take your human voice, put it in a directory and let people consume more of you. Give your audience the ability to Netflix on you. They want to binge watch you. They want to binge listen, give them the ability to take your voice along on that commute with them. So you can get in touch with us, Steven at knucklehead podcasts, or if you've got a really cool story stories at knucklehead podcasts, you can find us on LinkedIn and on Facebook and not go out promotions, LLC, and get in touch with us. Don't be a beta about the process. Don't let the fact that you don't know, prevent you from getting some wins. So don't be a beta, get some wins and contact us at Axiom.
Scott Leese (11:10): I appreciate that candor. And hopefully those of you who are listening can relate to that feeling of euphoria. There's nothing like it. Whenever you close a deal. When you ever you provide a, uh, an outline of services or, you know, a product, so to speak, you go through the feature process of articulating value to, to whomever it is that you're, that you're trying to sell to. And it works. There's really nothing like it. And the fact that you can continue to go through that same process and get better and make iterations and work on your communication, that only adds more tools to your bag. So to speak Azure, you know, as you're going through the process, it's very interesting to hear that you made that progression. At what point did you realize, I mean, with all these new tools that are being made available, because technology
Stephen Colon (11:54): Is changing during that time, that tech was going to be a route that you were going to go, or do you even look at your skillset as, as building tech organizations, do you look at, as it Maura's, uh, sales, mentorship, leadership, and development of, of those willing to go out there and,
Scott Leese (12:09): And do this as a profession? Yeah, I look at it. I look at it more as I know how to build sales organizations. And all of my experience has been in tech and has been in startups and primarily in SAS organizations, the story I tell myself is not, you know, Scott knows how to do tech. The story I tell myself is Scott, how to build sales organizations, right? So there's not a part of me. That's like if Austin FC hired me to run their revenue operations, there's no part of me that feels like, I wouldn't know what I'm doing. That's not tech. Right. And, and maybe I'm overconfident in that, but like, I feel like I understand the principles of selling. I understand the principles of managing and leading and how you put all those things together. It depends based on kind of the arena you're in, like, if I know how to coach football, I can coach at the Peewee level, the high school level, the college level, the pro level. Right. I might not be good at every single one, but I know how to coach at every single one you don't suddenly, I don't suddenly not know how to sell because I'm selling tickets as opposed to a software package. Right.
Stephen Colon (13:21): It goes right up against conventional wisdom. When you start talking about, um, people evaluating criteria and you know, whether or not some of these, you know, and so I, I appreciate that you're leaning into it. And for those of you who are listening that are hearing him his table, there is no manufactured energy that's coming from mr. Lee today. There's a significant amount of earned energy when it comes to believing the way that you do. And I got to ask you I've sat in some boardrooms and some conference rooms that it becomes very uncomfortable and very clear on who's. Who's had conversations with customers, and then who's had conversations with developers and software folks. There's a distinct difference. And so, um, I'm curious, how do you ever like recalibrate your emotions because you're constantly talking with customers and feeding off the energy from other people and kind of conducting yourself responsibly. How do you keep it together when you're around people who aren't having those same type of conversations?
Scott Leese (14:17): Yeah. That's a really good question. You know, I think that an advantage for me, I think is that I tend to be very introverted actually, which a lot of people might be surprised by who, who know me and I get energy and sort of recharge my battery through silence and calmness and all that. Like, I'm actually pretty chill, calm person. When I start talking about all these things, you know, the Italian in me comes out, I get all get all passionate about it. Right. So I it's easy for me to have these kind of energized conversations with prospects or customers or sales sellers of mine, and then immediately switch gears and go into an executive meeting for example, and kind of settle down. Right. And that, I don't know how to teach that or even how to articulate it that well, but it's a part of part of who I am.
Scott Leese (15:22): And so I think that I'm pretty good at this context, switching of doing one thing and being very present and immediately moving to the next thing and being very present in that. And I can, I'm adaptable. Like I don't ha I'm not type a hundred million miles an hour all the time. Like if you and I go to a backyard, barbecue or whatever, like I'm not the life of the party, man. Like I'm planted growing roots under a tree with my cocktails the whole time. Right. I'm chilling and that's restorative for me. So I think it's easy for me. And one of the reasons I like it is because I get to have lots of different conversations and interactions, and it's never me doing one thing the same over and over and over all the time. And that's one of the reasons why I knew very early, I wanted to get out of being an individual contributor because I felt like being an individual contributor for me was, Oh, I'm going to have this conversation for the rest of my life.
Scott Leese (16:22): And it's going to be the same thing. And I can't do that. Right. I'll just, I'll, I'll feel too depleted. But if I can get into a place where I can teach people how to do that, and I can do a lot of listening to people who are struggling and I can do a lot of problem solving and I can do a lot of collaborating and I can think strategically now I feel like, Oh, I get to do a bunch of different things. And there's times in the day, that required tons of energy from me. And there's times in the day where I can chill a little bit and be more thoughtful. And so that, that suits me and my personality, I think really well.
Stephen Colon (16:57): Well, that makes sense. And it also insinuates that there was some struggle there for a certain period of time, because, you know, as an individual contributor, you can, you can put together some pretty good income. And if there's not a whole lot of other choices for you earlier in your career, I mean, there's not really a perspective or a vantage point where you can identify those opportunities. So I got to ask you, do you have a story where you were confronted with an opportunity where you wished that you would have gone, you wish you would have zigged when he was asked or, or maybe a time where, you know, you stepped on it, so to speak where you wish that our relationship would have went differently than what it did
Scott Leese (17:30): For sure. You know, there's, there's times where I was struggling. And then I ended up making a choice that I think was the right one. So for example, the very first time I got put up for a sales manager role, I got passed over and I got passed over by somebody who was longer tenured, even though they were qualified, I would say through both their numbers and sort of the respect of the floor. And I remember thinking I should get out of here. These people, you know, don't respect me or whatever. And I remember taking a week off on vacation trying to figure out what I was going to do. And I ultimately ended up staying. And that decision was very smart of me because this person ended up failing. And I ended up getting promoted into the role, not very long after anyway. Right.
Scott Leese (18:16): But then I ceilinged out at that particular role, meaning I remember saying to them, how can I be a VP I've been here two and a half years? Like, that's the next place for me to go? And they're like, you're never going to be a VP here ever Mike, well, I guess I'm, uh, I guess I'm out of here and I quit with no other job lined up. Right. And I went backwards, VP of sales job, but you know, you lose all the variable part of your comp. So you start backwards a little bit, but here I was, I'm like, Oh, I'm a VP. Now I've got, you know, more responsibility and all this kind of stuff did really well there. Wasn't going to get funded again, not a good situation. Looking back on it in terms of like the relationship I had with my superiors and things like that.
Scott Leese (19:01): So I was so desperate to get out of there, Steven, that I took a job that I never should have taken. I did a very, very poor job vetting the company, vetting the product, vetting the founder, vetting the fundraising situation. And I stood up and it's like the blip on my resume. I was only there for eight months. I don't even know if it was eight months might have been seven, seven or eight months of a huge width. Right. And I remember thinking, I have got to get the next one, right. Or, you know, I could be in trouble. Like I've been ahead of sales three times now, but, uh, you know, mediocre success kind of at best. And what I was able to do thankfully, was think of all the things that I didn't know or didn't do embedding these other opportunities. Like there was a bad product with not enough funding.
Scott Leese (19:50): There was a tyrannical CEO. There was a place where I wasn't going to have the opportunity to go as high as I wanted, because they were all about experience and age and all this kind of thing. So I purposely tried to solve for those particular things. So I took this other VP of job and it required me to leave San Francisco and go all the way to Austin, Texas. I don't know anybody in Austin, Texas. I have no family here. Right? We had a one-year-old and a three year old at the time, big, huge risks, backward step in income, but backwards with the idea that I will be able to go forward and just always betting on myself along the way that company was main street hub. We sold main street hub, the GoDaddy for nine figures. I left main street hub after about two and a half, three years to go and do a turnaround project of this company called outbound engine.
Scott Leese (20:44): Everybody told me I was nuts. Everybody. That makes no sense. Why would you do that? Main street is doing well. Right? Well, there was things there that I was tired of and I wanted a new challenge. So I believe, and I go take that cake, same deal backwards, and comp have to go forward through success, right. And I've shanked a few times, but I've gotten much better as I've gone on and in evaluating opportunities. And I think the key for me has just always been, I bet on myself, I have competence in myself to get the job done. I have competent in myself to find the right teammates and people around me to fill the gaps in are the things that I'm terrible at. Right. And, you know, I can point back to my illness and what gives me competence and strength to take some of these risks is what's the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing that can happen, I arguably already defeated. Right? What happens if I get fired? Who cares? I'll find another job. What happens if I financially can't get back to the income level I was before who cares? I'm not in the hospital. What difference does it make? And there's a lot of freedom there for me in feeling like I got nothing to lose. Now I'm on borrowed time anyways. Right? So I might as well make the most of it.
Stephen Colon (22:03): And that's a humbling perspective to be able to have. And you know, the fact that you can recall some of the, uh, the stories in detail and vivid detail about your first week in sales, it also shows the level of appreciation that you have for somebody who's willing to go through that. I'll tell you from the outside looking in, uh, and you probably have seen this to be true also in today's world. There's a quick judgment that is made that there's the perception of everything needs to be figured out. There needs to be a weld machine. There needs to be this perfectly charted course. And you know, if all these financial models work the way that they're supposed to from a revenue generation standpoint, then what's the problem. And that's just the opposite of reality. The reality is, is things are messy. Things are difficult, and you're going to screw up that.
Stephen Colon (22:48): I mean, that was the whole premise of this podcast is what did you screw up? Where did you mess up? And, you know, what were the steps that you took in order to get you to where you needed to go? And so to be respectful of time, you know, I know we're, we're kind of coming to the tail end of this, but what I'm hearing from you, Scott, is you were willing to bet on you. My last question, and we can wrap with this is some of the decisions that you made that didn't get what you wanted. How did you develop some of that inertia and that confidence back in your ability to make a decision when you had that misstep?
Scott Leese (23:18): I didn't, I just didn't let it affect me. I don't, I didn't internalize a mistake and equate that to me. And I'm a loser, like, just because I lost doesn't mean I'm a loser, right. I accepted the fact that I made a mistake and thought, well, can't wait to not make that mistake again. I'm going to learn from that and be way better this time. And, you know, I think, uh, you know, I'm human. Like I think I would kind of give myself about a 24 hour pity party time limit, right? And then that's it, it's done. It's not doing me any good to dwell on it anymore. And being able to shake it off faster and bounce back faster is really, really, really important. But we are not our mistakes. We are not our failures. We are not our losses. We're a collection of the things that we did.
Scott Leese (24:09): Right. And the things that we did wrong. And I just don't care so much about who you've been. I care about who you are right now and who you want to become. And if I'm going to care about those things and the people I want to spend my time in my life around, I sure better live by that principle as well. And so I tried to be a guide on some level, if you, if you will, for other people to think and operate in this particular way. So I don't beat myself up too much for the mistakes that I've made.
Stephen Colon (24:40): Well, you've also had some experiences that, you know, that you've came back from. And then you've also had some experiences that not everybody's going to be able to be a part of a nine figure acquisition. However, uh, having been through that and having come back from the depths of despair, so to speak, I mean, just a couple of times with some life altering, uh, surgeries of glad to see that you're healthy. Glad to see that. You're good. Now, how can people get in touch with you if somebody was making that transition from one career step to another, where would be the best place that you would point them to?
Scott Leese (25:07): Yeah, well, you know, I wrote the first book and addicted to the process specifically for people who are early in their career in sales, who are looking to get into it for the first time. So that's a really good place to start. You know, I'm going to talk about the mindset required and what that journey was like, you know, for me, and, you know, you say, not everybody can be a part of a nine figure acquisition, but like I have no special pedigree that prepped me to be a part of something like that. And if I can sort it out soaking anybody else. And I think that's something that I really hope cuts through. You know, the conversation when people listen to this, I'm very active on LinkedIn, as you alluded to, I respond to everybody. So, you know, people should feel free to reach out to me there I've started a couple kind of micro communities, you know, surfing sales is one, you know, surfing sale.com for anybody who wants to check it out.
Scott Leese (26:02): I run the surfing sales podcast with my friend, Richard Harris, who, you know, Steven, I run Thursday night sales, which is the longest running weekly sales happy hour in the world, or on like 25 weeks in a row now. And you bolus. And I, I also run my own patriotic community. This is something that I've only recently started. There's about 125 people in there right now, but I write a bunch of private content. I hold private training events for people in that particular community. It's a lot easier for me to communicate with people there because it's 125 people versus 55,000 on LinkedIn. So any of these ways are good ways to get ahold of me in it. And if you're a founder or a of sales, who's,
Stephen Colon (26:44): You know, struggling to figure out how to go from zero to 25 million and how to build a scalable, sustainable sales motion. You know, I might be somebody worthwhile for you to talk to you. That's what I do in my consulting business. I help companies go from zero to 25 and help you sort out the people and, and the process and the playbook, you know, necessary to, to succeed there. So any of those ways are good ways to get ahold of me, I suppose. Well, there you have it, that's a, a very quick down and dirty honestly revealing conversation with, I liked the way that you said it cuts through the conversation to know that if you can sort through a nine figure acquisition, there's no special pedigree that's involved there. And I think that that's demystifies a lot of what people see, especially when they're only interacting with that level of, of success from a distance, or they're reading it in the headline, Scott.
Stephen Colon (27:30): So you humanize that experience really very well. So I appreciate you taking some time and talking to us about the importance of what we call, get some weds. And that's the recovery process of when you make a mistake and make a hiccup at either recalibrate yourself and come away from that pain and that suffering anything else you want to leave these folks with? We can sit here and talk for another couple hours. So maybe I'll come back on the show some other time. We'll go around too. I love it. I love it. We'll appreciate you for those of you who like listen to knucklehead new episodes coming at you every Tuesday. We thank Scott and I challenge you if you're listening to this, to connect with them exactly the way that he said, either on LinkedIn is patriotic or the sales and surf summit, check out some of his episodes. It's got some really good episodes over in sales and surf podcasts with him and Richard Harris. It's one of the more fun conversations and you will learn. I challenge you to try not to learn as you listen to the show. So if you're not subscribed to a show already do that. Alright, everybody else we'll talk to you soon. Have a good rest of the day, guys.
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Strongly confident that he has what it takes to be a topflight sales leader, Scott spent most of his early career finding the right people and the right position for the job. His bold mindset on how he views failure and how he bounces back from his mistakes makes him a 3x American Association of Inside Sales Professionals Top 25 Award Winner and one of the top startup sales leaders in the country.
Knucklehead Podcast guest for today, Scott Leese, will share with you his journey on how he gets into the sales arena, his ability to respond and handle multiple missteps and his willingness to fail in order to learn and be the best version of himself.
Scott Leese is the Founder and CEO of both Scott Leese Consulting, LLC and Surf & Sales. A highly sought-after consultant, advisor, leader, and sales trainer, Leese has a proven record of success building and scaling businesses from the ground up. He is also the author of Amazon’s #1 best-selling book on sales called Addicted to the Process that was released in 2017.
“It was really hard. I wanted to quit after the first day. I remember thinking I’m going to get fired today for sure. Being able to shake it off faster and bounce back faster is really, really, really important.”
In This Episode:
2:36 – What compelled him to write the book “Addicted to the Process”
5:41 – How Scott get into the sales arena
11:49 – His conviction of how he views himself in the field of technology
14:01 – How Scott recalibrates his emotions and energy when talking to people
17:13 – Chain of events where he is constantly on the lookout for the right teammates and right position for the job
23:12 – His process of reflecting and bouncing back when committing mistakes
Engage with Scott Leese
Website: The Surf and Sales
Podcast: The Surf and Sales
Book: Addicted to the Process
Community: Thursday Night Sales
Connect with Knucklehead Media Group
• Knucklehead Media Group is your “push button” for podcasts. We help companies and organizations tell their story using podcasts and best practices for content distribution. Home to some of the top podcasts across multiple categories, captivating coursework on gaining traction with your show, and consulting to those companies BOLD enough to get some wins. We believe your mistakes set the foundation for your success, those stories help customers beat a pathway to your doorstep, and the myths from bringing business online shouldn’t hold you back from getting yours.
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